Enthusiasm without knowledge is no good;
haste makes mistakes.
People ruin their lives by their own foolishness
and then are angry at the Lord.
- Proverbs 19:2-3 (NLT)
(Ow! Ow! Ow! Surely I haven't been guilty of this, have I?)
I put this passage into the same category as this verse: "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (Romans 8:28, NLT)
How's that, you ask? Think about it. Don't we have a tendency to assign to every event the idea that God has ordained it to be so? Don't get me wrong; while God does specifically ordain and orchestrate many things that happen and often executes these things through His people who are following Him closely (and sometimes through those who don't know Him), He also allows us -- beings to whom He's given free will -- to make choices, both good and bad. How He uses the outcome of the latter (our choices) is where we see His power to make a jeweled purse out of a proverbial sow's ear. This is exemplified throughout the Scriptures. Don't take what I opine as being the absolute truth. Search the Word for yourself to see if what I'm saying is correct.
As Jesus was walking along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. "Rabbi," his disciples asked him, "why was this man born blind? Was it because of his own sins or his parents’ sins?" "It was not because of his sins or his parents’ sins," Jesus answered. "This happened so the power of God could be seen in him."
- John 9:1-3, NLT
As Jesus said, this man was born blind so that the power of God could be seen in him.
But later...
One of the men lying there [at the Sheep Gate] had been sick for thirty-eight years. When Jesus saw him and knew he had been ill for a long time, he asked him, “Would you like to get well?” . . .
Jesus told him, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and walk!”
Instantly, the man was healed! He rolled up his sleeping mat and began walking! But this miracle happened on the Sabbath. . .
But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, “Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.”
- John 5:5-6, 8-9. 14, NLT (emphasis mine)
Not only did Jesus not directly tell the man in the second passage that his affliction had been given to him so that God would be glorified, but He tells the man afterward that actions have consequences.
We don't even necessarily need to go too "deep" with what Jesus said. He may have meant something much more mundane than we typically read into this. For instance, "If you continue to be verbally abusive to your neighbor, he may hit you in the face and crush your nose, giving you breathing problems for the rest of your life." Simple advice, but very practical. And possibly worse than being crippled.
Manga, anyone?
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[image: Serious Post Ahead warning sign]
Not my usual post, thought it needed a warning!
I was in Barnes & Noble the other day, and noticed something that ...
5:36 AM
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9 comments:
Well said. I truly appreciate the book of Proverbs. It's so straight forward - no matter what version you choose to read it. Oh, and I can't help but like Mr. T.
yes, the pic is a nice, nice touch Dean! I think we choose what suits our purposes many times. Sort of like if someone is angry and won't forgive us we quote all the scriptures about that. Then when WE are angry about someone else's sin against us we quote scriptures about how Jesus confronted people, etc. We desire grace but are not too generous in giving it. The same is true with God.
I read the best quote in an Agatha Christie book one time. Her famous detective Hercule Poirot said, "Do not blame the Good God for the actions of men." The same could be said for us. "Don't blame God for a decision YOU made." It's always easier though to let ourselves off the hook.
Final thought - healing only comes when we face and live into the truth about ourselves. One of my favorite verses is from Psalm 51 -
"For you desire honesty from my inmost being so that you can teach me to live wisely in all I do." (that's the Jan version paraphrase)
We must be honest to grow in wisdom. One other note (i'm just wordy today, huh?) is that we tend to always seem to see others more honestly than we see ourselves. It requires courage to look at ourselves through honest eyes.
How can we truly know the glorious and Holy God if we didn't first come to an understanding of our sinfulness and terrible mistakes that we made. Though we cannot say that God has tempted me (I think James talks about that) we can know the God is infinite and all things were created by Him and for Him and that through Him all things exist and outside Him there is nothing. (This question begs a theological answer, at least a little bit of systematic theology). We cannot separate the fact that God is infinite and God is sovereign and in control of all things and there is not a maverick molecule in the sky outside the sovereignty of God. In a question that asks why? I think Paul answers it all best when he says in Romans 9, "What if God wanting to show His wrath and to make is power known endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction and to make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which He prepared beforehand for glory,"
Jan, you brought out some things that are very close to home for me, but I didn't mean to allude to them. :) Good stuff! "[W]e tend to always seem to see others more honestly than we see ourselves. It requires courage to look at ourselves through honest eyes." Isn't that the truth?!
Anonymous, I'm not totally sure, but I think you may have missed some of the point of my post, although Romans 9 has some very good, deep insights into this subject!
As I stated, it is God's to choose what He will do, and in many cases it is plain that He does work in specific ways through specific people, just as Romans 9:18 says: "Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens."
However, the Bible replete with statements and admonitions which echo what Joshua told the Israelites: "Choose you this day whom you will serve..." This is not just a theme from the Old Testament. "But be doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." There is the obvious choice to not be a doer of the Word. Otherwise the statement in James is rendered moot.
Many times, God gives people the liberty to make choices which directly impact their lives and the lives of others. I don't think this could be the source of debate.
Lest I chase a wild hare any further, I'd like to point back to a verse at the top of today's post, which will hopefully summarize the whole thing:
People ruin their lives by their own foolishness
and then are angry at the Lord.
- Proverbs 19:3 (NLT)
http://www.geocities.com/matt_nyc/ateam/Soundbites/ba_ipitythefool.wav
Ahhh, here's the rest...
Soundbites/ba_ipitythefool.wav
Leroy,
Thank you for adding the dimension of high-quality, relevant sound to the discussion! :)
Anonymous - Are you alluding to the idea that out of God's Sovereignty that he also has created sin for his "glory"?? Romans 9 is not about individualistic predestination, but rather Paul is speaking as Jew and is speaking about the lineage of Christ here. Besides, the phrase “vessels of wrath fitted to destruction” allows for a variant voice; it can be both the passive and middle voice in Greek; middle means to fit oneself.
In the middle voice the subject acts in relation to him/herself. Consider this note from Vincent Word Studies: “NOT FITTED BY GOD FOR DESTRUCTION, but in an adjectival sense, ready, ripe for destruction, the participle denoting a present state previously formed, BUT GIVING NO HINT OF HOW IT HAD BEEN FORMED. That the objects of final wrath had themselves a hand in the matter may be seen from 1 Thess. 2:15-16.” By allowing the Bible to speak for itself through the plain meaning of the words and by comparing Scripture with Scripture we see that the sinner fits himself for destruction by his rejection of the truth. Even those who have never heard the gospel, have the light of creation and conscience and are responsible to respond to the light that they have that they might be given more light (Acts 17:26-27).
I suggest you stop reading the bible through a filter and allow the words to be read in their original context here, and I would recommend against "proof-texting" and you must harmonize the entire bible as a whole.
(Sorry - Dean I just couldn't allow that kind of comment and accusation against God's good character to go unanswered)
(I apologize, Dean, for not being clear on this subject). We can not blame God nor be angry at God for our foolishness, that is the essence of foolishness. I didn't make that clear in my initial statement.
Preston, I cannot say that God created sin. That is blasphemy against a Holy and Righteous God. My key point was not due to the fact that God created sin, but that he, in fact, does allow it to exist. I quoted the passage from Romans 9 not to take on a specific side of an argument, but in explaining why God will allow certain things to come to pass in our lives. So that His glory may best be magnified on the vessels of mercy which He has prepared for Glory (I could easily attempt to elaborate more on this but for space's sake, I really will not. I am offering a point of thought, not a factual statement. That's my disclaimer). We know for a fact that God does allow wickedness to go on for some time and we've seen that countless times in the Bible. We know that in the end, God will finally condemn Esau and sentence him to eternity in Hell for Esau's unbelief. I don't have an argument other than it's a mystery and not a stated fact.....
I cannot chase this rabbit either. I agree with Dean's title of his topic, it's complete foolishness. But my comment was more or less directed at Dean's statement that God ordains some things but not all things, the same God that works all things together according to the counsel of His will alone, that is crystal clear throughout scripture. Judas comes to my mind in God working according to His own will. Judas was not willing yet God still had an ordained purpose for Him. Pharaoh, yet again, another example of God using Him for the very purpose of displaying His glory and that His name would be declared in all the earth. Exodus is full of the text, "And the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart...."
My point is not "nit-picky" but in the overall scheme of everything, we have to believe that God does ordain all things according to His own will, not man's. I once again, have to reiterate, I've stated the mystery not the fact. We glory in God for His wonders and mysteries! We serve a holy and righteous God! There is truly none other and apart the working of God in our lives we are under his anathema but God demonstrated His own love towards us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us! That, I do sincerely hope, no one can argue ; )
"We should not hold to man's responsibility to the exclusion of God's sovereignty, nor hold to God's sovereignty to the exclusion of man's responsibility."- St. Augustine
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