Site Meter

17 August 2008

Give vs. Take Attitudes

Billy Chia has made a great observation based on a video clip of a project at Buckhead Church (which I'm not necessarily sure that everyone here will agree with). The observation Billy makes is this:

The give attitude asks

  • How can I help my community?
  • How can I share?
  • What do I have that is valuable and how can I use that outside the church walls?
The take attitude asks
  • How many converts will I get out of this?
  • Will this increase church attendance?
  • Will this net a “return” on our investment?
Stroll over to Billy's blog if you'd like to have a look at the project in question.

8 comments:

Lisa said...

I like to ask these questions

What does this mean for the Kingdom of God? Or, what does this mean in light of eternity?

Will this be labeled wood, hay, or stubble?

Whatever happened to small, med, and large? What is a Venti?

Dean Lusk said...

:)

Billy Chia said...

Dean,
Thanks for the shout. This is something I'm passionate about.

Lisa,
I like where you are heading - my original point was when we go into our community with an "agenda" then the perception is that we really want to "take" we are not there to "give."

I suggested these questions as a means to check our motives. And also as a means to spark awareness that it matters how the church presents itself to the outside world. (Col. 4:5, 1 Thess. 4:12, 1 Tim. 3:7)

Preston N said...

"Music is a form of worship, but music without knowledge is only celebration without substance" - Ravi Zacharias

"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" Romans 10:17

"This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?" Galatians 3:2

Guys, sorry to throw a wet blanket here, but Carlos is promoting a form of what I would call "Relevant Christianity" - I also call this "Spiritual Osmosis" - that somehow his love of God will rub off onto others. He thinks that somehow people will be drawn to the Lord through music. But Ravi Z makes a valid claim and that is music without knowledge is nothing more than celebration. God has designed us that in order for us to have genuine emotions it must be tied to knowledge. If your expecting a bar full of sinners to start worshiping God then we have an improper understanding of what a holy God requires as worship.

Repentance and faith can come only through hearing (knowledge) & knowing of the Gospel - and no a song merely mentioning Jesus is not the gospel - its just that - a song. Let's be honest with ourselves here and realize the reason people don't want to go to church is they are in rebellion to God or that churches are doing such a poor job these days of preaching the gospel. Yes - "rebellion" is an ugly word but so is sin. (1 Timothy 1:8-10). It is only by hearing and knowing the gospel that will set men free.

Here's an idea - let's send Carlos into that same bar and have him preach a message of repentance and how Christ suffered and died for sinners and let's see what type of reception he gets then? The apostles weren't killed and despised for playing worship music, or doing community service, but for preaching the gospel of Christ. Want to truly effect our community openly preach or share the gospel and then maybe they can worship God from the heart. Want to really improve our community - share the gospel.

Billy: Just a thought - Did Jesus have an agenda?
Did the apostles have an agenda? Do missionaries have an agenda? Does God have an agenda to save the lost from their sins - YES! So should we!

Dean Lusk said...

Preston, you are always welcome to bring blankets, wet or otherwise! And whenever you bring along Ravi Zacharias quotes, you're extra welcome. :)

My red flags immediately went "Ding! Ding!" (though flags usually only make flapping noises) when Carlos mentioned "doing worship" in a bar. That's very likely not going to happen.

My post was referencing Billy's commentary, which I believe is superb; not the project, although I think that there is some merit in that idea.

When Billy said "agenda" in his comment, I take that to mean "a horribly motivated agenda," and I believe that take is well-supported in his initial points. I know that you and I agree about how motives typically make all the difference in determining the "goodness" or "badness" of a particular thing.

Regarding agendas, I believe you're exactly right. "The Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." (Luke 19:10) An agenda. Definitely.

"Let's be honest with ourselves here and realize the reason people don't want to go to church is they are in rebellion to God or that churches are doing such a poor job these days of preaching the gospel."

I agree again. The Church sometimes ("sometimes" is being extremely nice about it) does a really rotten job of showing that we really do believe these things we say we believe. And it's not just preaching the Gospel verbally. It's in everything we do and in the fact that our verbal preaching is often not backed up by any evidence that it's true.

I believe that this is the basis of the project at Buckhead Church -- to prove to non-believers that the Church doesn't simply care about "winning converts" or getting another notch in their pistol grip.

But again, whatever the case in Buckhead's efforts, my post is in reference to Billy's points about the "give" attitude vs. the "take" attitude. Very pointed; very true.

Preston N said...

Dean - Indeed we can be preaching the gospel and still have unloving or impure motives or desire personal gain out of doing so.

But you made a comment that really struck me:

"I believe that this is the basis of the project at Buckhead Church -- to prove to non-believers that the Church doesn't simply care about "winning converts" or getting another notch in their pistol grip.'

What stuck out was the phrase "to prove to non-believers". It saddens my heart that we as Christians have to even say such things or come up with such ideas.

Indeed I now see Billy's point - but I was tying it back to the video. Sorry - Did I mentioned I am easily confused sometimes :}

Dean Lusk said...

"It saddens my heart that we as Christians have to even say such things or come up with such ideas."

Yep...

Leroy said...

Uhhh, way beyond me. So I'll just say "hey y'all, I just want to serve the Lord!!" :)

Twitter Delicious Facebook Digg Stumbleupon Favorites More

 
Design by Free WordPress Themes | Bloggerized by Lasantha - Premium Blogger Themes | Bluehost Review